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870Boy
12-09-2010, 02:42 PM
Currently in the middle of a pizzing match with the gas well company about our free gas.

Looking at alternatives, don't like the prospects of how much propane will cost. We have an old farm house with no insulation and a forced air furnace in it now.

Who has an outdoor wood boiler? What's the good, bad and ugly about these machines. I know nothing about these other than not a good idea if you live in town, please teach me.

Thanks.

hunterdeneugene
12-09-2010, 03:23 PM
I would hold off on one until they figure out the rules and regulations involved in them. There is talk about how high the pipes need to be depending on your closest neighbor, ect, ect. Here is the DEC's link....

http://www.dec.ny.gov/regulations/64459.html

zenrider
12-09-2010, 03:42 PM
In NY it is getting tough. PA is also considering legislation on them. There is another thread on here from someone who had his shut down because of neighbor complaining and then failing testing when they showed up. He basically has a very expensive yard ornament at this time. Better check your regs.

SportJet120
12-09-2010, 03:48 PM
I know there has been some problems with people b****ing about them from nearby neighbors. One other option you might look at is a wood furnace for in the basement. They are just like forced air but use wood. If you have a gas hot water heater you could go to electric and not have to burn wood during the warm months for hot water. Just a thought....

870Boy
12-09-2010, 10:41 PM
I am in a suitable location, my closest neighbor is about 1,000' away. Closest downwind neighbor is a about 2,500' away. Considering an Aqua Therm E 275. The unit actually would need to be in some type of shelter, probably put it in the garage. You can buy a "shell" for it so it could sit outside, but I have been told you are better off saving the money and putting it your own shelter. Supposedly, it is the most up todate with the regs.

Putting wood in the basement sounds like a lot of work (and mess) to me.

Just curious if anyone had one, what the brand was and their satisfaction. I have heard everything from some models are great to others that are not.

SportJet120
12-09-2010, 10:51 PM
I know what you mean as far as carrying wood to the basement. Back when I used mine I would fill the cellar way with wood and cover it. When I needed wood I opened the door and there it was. As far as a shelter I'm sure you could build one out of rough cut with a section for dry wood. I don't think it matters much if the wood is dry or not it will still burn in those furnaces.

we3jeepers
12-09-2010, 11:02 PM
If it went so damn expensive to do I would be all over getting one! let me know if you do it how much it is.... last I knew it was somethign like 10 grand!!!

SportJet120
12-09-2010, 11:05 PM
Here check them out. I'm sure your neighbors will love you ! http://www.sunburst-sales.com/EcoOne.html

Waldorf
12-10-2010, 11:06 AM
I have a US Clayton model wood furnace in my basement and it works great. Mine has a fan draft on it so it can burn wood or coal. I was going to put a outside furnace in but they use to much wood. I had an old Kalamazoo furnace in the house and the heat exchanger got a hole in it so I had to replace it with something. I also have a propane boiler but when you look at the price of propane, you sure don't want to turn it on. It may seem strange but this house has both hot water heat and forced air heat. This is the way it was when I bought the house. No matter what you do with wood heat you will have something to clean up in the spring. A nice shop vac will take care of the basement. I burn both wood and coal in it when it gets really cold out. I put a couple pieces of wood on the bottom of fire box and put the coal on top of this. The coal I by is in plastic bags and they weigh 40 pounds each. I do not think the outside furnace are very efficient.

huntnfool
12-10-2010, 12:16 PM
I put in a coal boiler there is no smoke no odor and I can heat my house for about 200 a month my house is old no insulation I looked at a wood boiler but in town or close to others smoke is always an issue. check out keystoker sometime.

870Boy
12-10-2010, 01:35 PM
If it went so damn expensive to do I would be all over getting one! let me know if you do it how much it is.... last I knew it was somethign like 10 grand!!!

You are right, they are not cheap. But either is buying propane.

870Boy
12-10-2010, 01:39 PM
Anyone have any ideas on how far away from the house an indoor wood boiler could be placed. Could I put an indoor woodboiler in my garage that is about 100' feet from the house and run burried insulated pipes to the basement?

Seems that I am hearing good reports about the "indoor" model boilers. Like Waldorf was refering to, and my dad has a Royall indoor boiler in his attached garage that has been nearly trouble free with over 25 years of service.

zenrider
12-10-2010, 02:26 PM
If you are in NY, I would suggest consulting the county planning or zoning board. While it may seem safe and may seem to be far enough from neighbors, the actual law most likely spells out specific requirements. If you put it 15 ft in the wrong direction, it could cost you as much or more to reinstall it correctly as it originally cost. Think ahead.

fishinjohn
12-10-2010, 05:27 PM
I have one right now in my yard that the state has shut down basically cause it was easier to make up some @#@$$##$@#@ B@#$@$#%@$%@#$@t excuse to shut me down than to tell my neighbor who is 450ft upwind from me he needs to deal with a little smoke. I have a tailor and i loved it for the last 7 years. I say @Q#$$#@#$%@#^$^#@%$ NY and their bs rules and regs. and buy one put it inside your garage or in a shed attatched to your house and RUN IT!!!!!!!!!! I have tentative plans to move mine into a garage attached to my house for next season.Once its in your house or in a building attached to your house there is NOTHING they can do. Unless they want to start to invade EVERBODY'S house that has a woodstove or a fireplace. I am burning my fireplace this winter and my neighbor is complaining about that too. But guess what? He can go............................ Sorry, sore subject for me!!!!!

Waldorf
12-10-2010, 05:41 PM
I would rather smell your wood smoke than that crap coming out of the refinery. Maybe we can get them to shut that stinking place down too. The government seems to forget that the majority is suppose to rule not one person. Do you think if I would whine enough that they would shut down the refinery.

zenrider
12-10-2010, 06:25 PM
yeah... that's the guy I was talking about...

I have one right now in my yard that the state has shut down basically cause it was easier to make up some @#@$$##$@#@ B@#$@$#%@$%@#$@t excuse to shut me down than to tell my neighbor who is 450ft upwind from me he needs to deal with a little smoke. I have a tailor and i loved it for the last 7 years. I say @Q#$$#@#$%@#^$^#@%$ NY and their bs rules and regs. and buy one put it inside your garage or in a shed attatched to your house and RUN IT!!!!!!!!!! I have tentative plans to move mine into a garage attached to my house for next season.Once its in your house or in a building attached to your house there is NOTHING they can do. Unless they want to start to invade EVERBODY'S house that has a woodstove or a fireplace. I am burning my fireplace this winter and my neighbor is complaining about that too. But guess what? He can go............................ Sorry, sore subject for me!!!!!

zenrider
12-10-2010, 06:27 PM
The diference with the refinery is they pay for discharge permits. There is a minimum and then it goes by quantities. You could not heat with wood economically and pay for discharge permits, evaluations, yearly filings or quantities. The refinery can afford the permits plus any fines incurred for violations.

870Boy
12-10-2010, 09:49 PM
I stopped to see one of my customers today, who was actually in the process of installing a new outdoor wood boiler for his home. He purchased an Econo Burn. They are made right here in Chautauqua County, in Brocton. Looked like a real good machine to me. I scheduled a tour of their factory for Monday afternoon.

I am also learing there is a 30% tax credit of up to $1,500 on wood burners that are high efficiency and meet some EPA standard. Tax credit expires December 31st.

fishinjohn
12-11-2010, 01:35 PM
MAKE SURE that if you buy new and you plan on keeping it outdoors, that it meets and passes all epa requirements. Otherwiise youll be screwed when this new law goes into effect. IF it ever does

870Boy
12-15-2010, 01:40 PM
Well we pulled the trigger on an Econoburn 200,000 BTU indoor model. It is a gasification machine, made right in Brocton, NY it Qualifies for the tax credit. Going to pick it up on Friday and hopefully my neighbor the plumber can help me get it going in fairly short order.

Fishinjohn...taking your advise. It is going right in the garage. Good for several reasons 1. I don't like the idea of standing in a snow bank to feed it 2. The "indoor" models are cheaper than the "outdoor" models. 3. Hopefully will be expempt from any future rules.

SportJet120
12-15-2010, 01:54 PM
Good choice. Being it's inside I don't think the neighbors or anyone can complain any about smoke from it. I don't think they give off that much smoke anyways. Good luck !
Well we pulled the trigger on an Econoburn 200,000 BTU indoor model. It is a gasification machine, made right in Brocton, NY it Qualifies for the tax credit. Going to pick it up on Friday and hopefully my neighbor the plumber can help me get it going in fairly short order.

Fishinjohn...taking your advise. It is going right in the garage. Good for several reasons 1. I don't like the idea of standing in a snow bank to feed it 2. The "indoor" models are cheaper than the "outdoor" models. 3. Hopefully will be expempt from any future rules.

fishinjohn
12-16-2010, 04:25 PM
Smart move 870!!!
Well we pulled the trigger on an Econoburn 200,000 BTU indoor model. It is a gasification machine, made right in Brocton, NY it Qualifies for the tax credit. Going to pick it up on Friday and hopefully my neighbor the plumber can help me get it going in fairly short order.

Fishinjohn...taking your advise. It is going right in the garage. Good for several reasons 1. I don't like the idea of standing in a snow bank to feed it 2. The "indoor" models are cheaper than the "outdoor" models. 3. Hopefully will be expempt from any future rules.

fishinjohn
12-16-2010, 04:26 PM
They can complain all they want. BUT, there isnt a dagon thing they can do about it. BECAUSE ITS INSIDE!!
Good choice. Being it's inside I don't think the neighbors or anyone can complain any about smoke from it. I don't think they give off that much smoke anyways. Good luck !

SportJet120
12-16-2010, 04:37 PM
http://www.aqua-therm.com/faq_econoburn.htm Here are intersting facts you might want to look at.

fishinjohn
12-17-2010, 05:37 PM
In all this cold weatrher i sure wish i could fire up my stove. Heating with propane REALLY SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SportJet120
12-17-2010, 05:39 PM
Can you put it inside of a garage?
In all this cold weatrher i sure wish i could fire up my stove. Heating with propane REALLY SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

870Boy
12-17-2010, 10:52 PM
In all this cold weatrher i sure wish i could fire up my stove. Heating with propane REALLY SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tell me about it. Propane is costing me about $30 / day right now to heat our old house. That is with a few small electric heaters and a little woodstove going. I would like to kick the head guy at the gas well company right in the balls...

Can't wait to get the boiler in and set up.

fishinjohn
12-18-2010, 03:36 PM
Can you put it inside of a garage?

I dont have a garage to put it in right now. And its a ******* to move. WIll need equiptment to do that.
Its quite a big stove.

870Boy
12-20-2010, 02:14 PM
Start building. Build a structure right around it. Wood storage and keeps the burner inside then.

J-B
01-05-2011, 10:12 PM
I have a Central Boiler Model 6048. It works great, but was a little expensive to get all set up. My gas bills are the minimum, around 13-15 bucks a month. The only advice I would give is to use good tubing ( Pex) from the boiler into your house. Othewrwise you will be losing heat the whole way there. I have the in-floor radiant heat and it works great. We end up burning a little over a tri-axle a season (and we keep the house at 72 degrees), which is still much cheaper than paying gas bills. Central boiler is now making models that are supposed to be very efficient with less smoke as well ?

870Boy
01-05-2011, 10:23 PM
Well we are on day 3 of running the boiler. I love it. I have been able to lounge around the house at night in my shorts and not feel my pocket book getting thinner.

SportJet120
01-05-2011, 10:26 PM
I was just thinking of you when I went past my unused burner. Glad to hear that it's working good for you. I'm almost out of heating oil and need to buy more. Not looking fwd to paying over $3 a gallon.

870Boy
01-05-2011, 10:34 PM
I have a Central Boiler Model 6048. It works great, but was a little expensive to get all set up. My gas bills are the minimum, around 13-15 bucks a month. The only advice I would give is to use good tubing ( Pex) from the boiler into your house. Othewrwise you will be losing heat the whole way there. I have the in-floor radiant heat and it works great. We end up burning a little over a tri-axle a season (and we keep the house at 72 degrees), which is still much cheaper than paying gas bills. Central boiler is now making models that are supposed to be very efficient with less smoke as well ?

I looked at the Central boiler. Good looking machine.

We used the pex pipe that has the aluminum core in it. Two 1" pipes with insulation around them inside a 4" flexible pipe. Was $7 / foot for the pipe. That was a quick $700 right there...ouch!

I hear what you are saying about costly. I know what I paid for the machine, but I have not got the bill yet from my plumber who helped me put it in. I just look at all the copper pipe, heat exchangers, pumps etc, etc and his time... the dollar signs are adding up fast. I did everything I could to minimize costs. I picked up the parts, had the amish build me a stainless steel smoke stack (which I put up), I ran the line to the house and I hooked up the heat exchanger to our hot water tank. The plumber and his hired man did the rest.

A $1,000 / month in propane is a real waste IMO. We figured this thing would payoff in less than two years. We have a woodlot, so cutting firewood is not very expensive for us.

J-B
01-07-2011, 09:23 PM
Your right, it was a little expensive up front, but my gas bills are between $14 -$18 a month !! I also heat my domestic hot water with it so we never run out of hot water.WE have the indirect hot water tank and it works awesome. It is definitely money well spent.

SportJet120
04-06-2011, 07:06 AM
Outdoor wood boilers burned by new PA state regulations

By Christina Tatu
Pocono Record Writer
April 04, 2011


Coming this spring, new state regulations will make it more difficult and costly to install outdoor wood-fired boilers a move that's sparked debate between environmentalists and proponents of the furnaces.

Starting May 31, the state Department of Environmental Protection will enforce new regulations requiring the units to burn cleaner.


The regulations will also increase flue heights, require the furnaces to be at least 150 feet from a neighbor's property line, and prohibit the burners' use in the summer. Also known as wood furnaces and hydronic heaters, outdoor wood-fired boilers use underground insulated pipes to circulate hot water to heat a home.

Environmentalists have argued the boilers pose a health risk because their stack heights are often lower than other wood-burning devices and their lower combustion temperatures result in more intense smoke released closer to ground level.

The particulate matter released by the furnaces can cause respiratory problems, said a 2010 report released by the DEP.

"We kind of chuckle when people talk about burning organic wood. It's better than fossil fuels. Have you ever heard of someone who died from ash poisoning?" said Warren Walborn, president and CEO of Hawken Energy, one of the largest manufacturers of wood-fired boilers in the country.

Walborn said the new regulations have significantly decreased the Shelby, Mich., company's sales in Pennsylvania.

Prior to the regulations' introduction, Pennsylvania had the third-highest sales volume for Hawken outdoor furnaces, Walborn said.

Since the regulations were introduced 18 months ago, Pennsylvania's sales are now somewhere between the 10th and 20th spots, Walborn estimated.

"Pennsylvania is naturally a wood-burning state because it's so rural, but everyone is freaked out by these regulations, and they're just waiting to see what the state is going to do," Walborn said.

Companies selling in Pennsylvania will also be required to send new models to a certified lab for testing before they are sold. The cost for the test is $30,000 per model, plus shipping.

Because of Hawken's size, Walborn said his company will be able to shoulder the costs, but he thinks many smaller companies will be put out of business.

To release less particulate matter, the furnaces will also be required to burn significantly hotter, and will be more expensive for consumers.

According to the DEP report, an outdoor wood-fired boiler can currently cost from $8,000 to $18,000, and that cost could increase by about 15 percent once the new regulations go into effect.

As of February, Barrett Township, Delaware Water Gap, East Stroudsburg Borough, Jackson Township, Mount Pocono Borough, Pocono Township, Ross Township, Smithfield Township and Tobyhanna Township all had ordinances regulating the use of outdoor wood-boilers, according to the county Planning Commission.

Paradise, Chestnuthill, Tunkhannock and Stroud townships are in the process of passing similar ordinances.

According to a DEP report, the department received five complaints from Monroe County in 2010 about the furnaces.

No complaints were filed from Pike County. The report noted the furnaces are sometimes used to burn garbage and other hazardous waste and can be linked to asthma and lung cancer

Snookman
04-06-2011, 08:47 AM
Wondering what "The Environmentalists" think of alternative fuel like say maybe Nuclear? Can we send them to Japan to check out their facilities there? Why dont these articles ever say who exactly these environmentalists are that do all these studies and maybe a phone number that we can call them to discuss their findings? Its sooooo easy to point fingers and say whats wrong with things but they never seem to come up with solid solutions to anything!

fishinjohn
04-06-2011, 09:38 PM
All i can say about outdoor wood boilers: Buy one, use it, LOVE it, and make sure you put it inside a building and THEY CANT TOUCH YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!! Trust me, been there and wish i would have put mine inside!!!!!
My neighbor is such a spazzzzz he called the air pollution in buffalo AGAIN on me, this time about my smoker. I told the guy from buffalo that he would be hearing from the senators office and, he will be contacting a lawyer from now on and not me :angryfire:

SportJet120
04-06-2011, 11:45 PM
All i can say about outdoor wood boilers: Buy one, use it, LOVE it, and make sure you put it inside a building and THEY CANT TOUCH YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!! Trust me, been there and wish i would have put mine inside!!!!!
My neighbor is such a spazzzzz he called the air pollution in buffalo AGAIN on me, this time about my smoker. I told the guy from buffalo that he would be hearing from the senators office and, he will be contacting a lawyer from now on and not me :angryfire: WOW ! What a neighbor. Did you explain your smoker is no more than a barbecue grill/cooker ?

fishinjohn
04-08-2011, 07:29 PM
Oh, I explained trust me!! I was not that pleasant about it either.
WOW ! What a neighbor. Did you explain your smoker is no more than a barbecue grill/cooker ?

870Boy
04-11-2011, 09:36 AM
Chautauqua County Farm Bureau is hosting a Wood Boiler Media Day. 10 AM on April 21st at Goldberg Plumbing and Heating in Panama, NY. A local individual has circlulated a petition and has nearly 4,000 signatures agaisnt any regulation on burning wood. The public is welcome.

We are presenting the petetion to Senator Young and Assemblymen Andy Goodell. Representatives from the industry will be on hand, as well as all the local media.

We are fighthing this deal pretty hard, hopefully we will be sucessful. If you are a rural landowner and use a wood boiler consider joining Farm Bureau, we are trying to stick up for your rights.

fishinjohn
04-11-2011, 05:56 PM
Good luck!! I might get my father in law and try to make it to the meeting

fishinjohn
04-11-2011, 05:57 PM
Is the senator going to be at this meeting?

870Boy
04-12-2011, 09:42 PM
Is the senator going to be at this meeting?

That's my understanding. Along with our local Assemblymen Andy Goodell.

If you need directions or details let me know.

Chuck Sabatose
04-18-2011, 08:14 PM
I have had one for 3 years now. It was expensive, but it has almost paid for itself already. I got tired of paying such high prices for propane. They are making some law about how high your stack has to be, but anyone that has one is grandfathered. Best investment that I ever made.

fishinjohn
04-18-2011, 09:22 PM
Lucky you!!!
I havent been able ot run mine since last spring, i miss the "free" heat ALOT!!!!!!!!!!
Cost me around $3000 since october GGGRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR