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View Full Version : Deer In PA. Dies In NY.?



Bwanna Jim
10-02-2007, 03:15 PM
Here is something I am sure has come up but I would like to know for sure. Hunter is hunting archery in PA. and shoots a nice buck. The hunter tracks it to the NY. line where it crossed into NY. It is not archery season in NY and this hunter does not have a Nonresident licence for NY. What to do,call PGC,NYDEC,BOTH? I have run into this during gun season where I was hunting with a rifle shot a deer in PA. and it crossed into NY. Went home and got my shotgun and recovered the deer but what happens if the hunter only has licence for one state? :?

JEREMIAH JOHNSON
10-02-2007, 03:50 PM
I would definately call both PGC and NYDEC, they would probably send someone out to check your story and if everything checks out i'm pretty sure you can get your deer. I really don't know for sure but i've heard of similar stories happening near private property.

10-02-2007, 05:14 PM
A little story about a guy I knew once.....

He crawled into some thick pines back in the middle of nowhere and found a deer bedded. It had legal horns so he shot it right there in it's bed. The slug exited the buck and hit the doe that was bedded tight in behind the buck. He didn't realize there were two deer inline with his shot.

The doe, wounded in the side of the head, flopped and thrashed around and he shot it a second time to put it down for good. Putting the doe out of it's misery was a good thing to do but the pickle he was in then was that he didn't have a doe tag.

Wanting to do the right thing he called the Game Warden and after the Warden looked the situation over issued the guy a ticket for illegally killing a doe.

He went to court, paid his fine and the judge asked him if he had learned anything from the experience.

He told the judge that he did learn something.....to never call the game warden again.

Just food for thought.

On aside, I asked him why he shot if he wasn't absolutely sure of the results. We stopped hunting together after that.

Brdnspr
10-02-2007, 05:51 PM
He told the judge that he did learn something.....to never call the game warden again.



=D>

Just go get the deer....

JEREMIAH JOHNSON
10-02-2007, 06:10 PM
I lost a big doe one time that ran over to the Indian Reservation, tracked her for as long as I could but had to give up once she crossed to the Res. Aint no deer worth what the Indians would've done to me if they caught me hunting on their land. It's a different world when you cross that line.

Brdnspr
10-02-2007, 06:17 PM
Agree. State lines and Indjun lines are different scenarios.

Good Call.

J-k
10-02-2007, 07:25 PM
My grandfather had that happen 2 years ago. He did not call the pa warden. But he called the Ny warden. he was informed that he may track the deer, he was not allowed to carry a firearm across the line without a ny license.

zenrider
10-03-2007, 07:30 AM
Legally, if it crosses the line, it is free. Does not matter if you can see it laying there dead. It is not for you unless you can get special permission to retrieve as above. You can bet that would be without a firearm.

But I think the man that "learned something" is right on. Don't ever call the law for something you can handle yourself. Is this not what nightime was created for?

Honest mistakes still result in honest fines. They published a notice in PA when we started antler restrictions. They promised they would NOT FINE those that mistakenly killed a buck without the required number of points. You were supposed to report it and they would take the deer and all was well. You learned your lesson. The honest citizens that called soon learned their lesson. Commission could not write tickets fast enough. That was a wound our Game Comm will be remembered for many scores of years. Just let the authorities do their own job. Do not do it for them.

Surely, this guy must have known someone with a doe tag! DUH!

eyedoktr
10-03-2007, 07:57 AM
I'm surprised how many on here are saying that it's alright to shoot a deer without a proper tag, by mistake. How it's alright to overharvest illegally, by mistake. How it's o.k. to trespass on other property as long as it's night and you don't get caught. C'mon people really. If you do something illegal whether by accident or not, you should be ticketed and fined.

10-03-2007, 08:10 AM
I'm surprised how many on here are saying that it's alright to shoot a deer without a proper tag, by mistake. How it's alright to overharvest illegally, by mistake. How it's o.k. to trespass on other property as long as it's night and you don't get caught. C'mon people really. If you do something illegal whether by accident or not, you should be ticketed and fined.

And you'd be quick to ***** and whine if it happened to you.....................

eyedoktr
10-03-2007, 08:49 AM
I'm surprised how many on here are saying that it's alright to shoot a deer without a proper tag, by mistake. How it's alright to overharvest illegally, by mistake. How it's o.k. to trespass on other property as long as it's night and you don't get caught. C'mon people really. If you do something illegal whether by accident or not, you should be ticketed and fined.

And you'd be quick to ***** and whine if it happened to you.....................

Nope, it has happened to me. I shot a deer and it made it's way to property I did not have permission to be on. I called the land owner and explained the sitation. He came, found the deer, thanked me,and proceeded to take it home. No big deal. That's his right.

I also will NOT shoot unless I know exactly what I am shooting at and what may be behind it.

Bwanna Jim
10-03-2007, 09:23 AM
I think we need someone in LE to find out for sure what to do. I too am very surprised that so many here would not be ethical!!

10-03-2007, 09:40 AM
I'm surprised how many on here are saying that it's alright to shoot a deer without a proper tag, by mistake. How it's alright to overharvest illegally, by mistake. How it's o.k. to trespass on other property as long as it's night and you don't get caught. C'mon people really. If you do something illegal whether by accident or not, you should be ticketed and fined.

And you'd be quick to ***** and whine if it happened to you.....................

Nope, it has happened to me. I shot a deer and it made it's way to property I did not have permission to be on. I called the land owner and explained the sitation. He came, found the deer, thanked me,and proceeded to take it home. No big deal. That's his right.

I also will NOT shoot unless I know exactly what I am shooting at and what may be behind it.

So what's your point...

Other than taking up bandwidth..............

eyedoktr
10-03-2007, 10:10 AM
I'm surprised how many on here are saying that it's alright to shoot a deer without a proper tag, by mistake. How it's alright to overharvest illegally, by mistake. How it's o.k. to trespass on other property as long as it's night and you don't get caught. C'mon people really. If you do something illegal whether by accident or not, you should be ticketed and fined.

And you'd be quick to ***** and whine if it happened to you.....................

Nope, it has happened to me. I shot a deer and it made it's way to property I did not have permission to be on. I called the land owner and explained the sitation. He came, found the deer, thanked me,and proceeded to take it home. No big deal. That's his right.

I also will NOT shoot unless I know exactly what I am shooting at and what may be behind it.

So what's your point...

Other than taking up bandwidth..............

Gee, I'm sorry. I thought this was an open forum. I didn't realize it was only for you and your 2-3 friends (1 or 2?).

Time to take your medication again.

doubleheader
10-03-2007, 10:36 AM
Eyedokter,

Generally I agree with what you're saying, especially the part about respecting private land. One is always better off asking for permission to hunt land even if it isn't posted and surely one shouldn't ever sneak on to someone's land regardless. On the other hand, while ignorance is no excuse for breaking the law, it is fairly common to hear about someone killing two deer or turkey with one shot.
I don't believe these folks should be fined in all cases and this is where the WCO should do some investigating. Unless there is some recklessness involved error on the side of the hunter. As far as the antler reriction violation the only problem I had with the fines levied in PA was the earlier message they sent that offenders wouldn't necessarily be fined. I believe if you shoot an undersize buck you should be fined, that's part of the difficulty of killing a buck in the new AR world. The PA Game commision should have made that clear up front rther than be wishy washy.

zenrider
10-03-2007, 01:25 PM
What you say doubleheader.

I am not recommending you break the law. My point was we followed Game Comm request and some honest folks turned themselves in. That AR rule was a new rule requiring some hunter adjustment. We have other new rules each year and they do not offer us the same option.

But, when you are deliberately mislead (read entrapment) and you do the right thing, then they break their promise, that does not enhance relations. That breeds mistrust against an agency already in doubt by a good many sportsmen.

I don't think I would tresspass on private property if my deer crossed the line. However, I am uncertain I would leave one laying in Allegany SP if I felt for sure it went down. I certainly would not pursue a wounded one that way.

Then comes the ETHICS part. Is it ethical to retrieve the deer you shot? Or leave it for the coyotes? Is law and ethics the same thing? NOPE.

Lawfully, you could just say, "Oh well" and continue hunting. You need not notify anyone, state or private, that they now have your dead deer on their property. Is that ETHICAL? NOPE... LEGAL? YES!!

Some would argue that deer hunting is not ethical according to their standards. So, ethics is very personal. My ethics would lean towards retrieving the deer. My legal concerns would lead me to leave the gun in the truck while doing so. My respect for and experience with private property owners would lead me to say, "Oh well" and move on to the next target. Some property owners might not be so happy to retrieve that deer and say, "thanks buddy."

I would go get it w/o my gun if not on posted land and take my punishment if some overzealous enforcement entity decided they just had to write one more ticket today to some unfortunate that was caught up in an ethics vs technicality situation.

Brdnspr
10-03-2007, 03:33 PM
The original post was about a buck shot that crossed statelines. What do you do ?

JEREMIAH JOHNSON
10-03-2007, 03:45 PM
Go get it, worry about getting caught if you get caught. Besides how are you going to figure out exactly where the line is??? There are'nt any flourescent lines out in the middle of the woods that show the state line.

Brdnspr
10-03-2007, 04:13 PM
My thoughts exactly JJ.

10-03-2007, 07:11 PM
Gee, I'm sorry. I thought this was an open forum.



It is......

Please post responsibly.

Save Lives, Don't Post and Drive.

eyedoktr
10-03-2007, 08:08 PM
Gee, I'm sorry. I thought this was an open forum.



It is......

Please post responsibly.

Save Lives, Don't Post and Drive.

and just what did I say that I did not "post responsibly" ? That my opinion is different than yours?

10-03-2007, 08:38 PM
You assumed everyone so far was condoning/promoting illegal activity........when it was basically small talk about an "issue" that's not a real big deal to most.

Typical urbanite response.

Much can be "handled" privately without involving the law or the letter there of.

Ethics and Law are two different things, as previoulsy stated.

That's just my differing opinion................

eyedoktr
10-03-2007, 09:12 PM
You assumed everyone so far was condoning/promoting illegal activity........when it was basically small talk about an "issue" that's not a real big deal to most.

Typical urbanite response.

Much can be "handled" privately without involving the law or the letter there of.

Ethics and Law are two different things, as previoulsy stated.

That's just my differing opinion................

Sorry but breaking the law is not acceptable or small talk.

Typical urbanite response ? You have no idea how or where I live. You shouldn't judge others until you can judge yourself.

10-04-2007, 06:24 AM
The sky is Blue..................

carl milks
10-09-2007, 09:18 PM
I live/hunt within a half mile of PA/NY border. On my hill, the state line IS clearly marked. The trees have 3 yellow slashes painted on them just about every other tree, and there are metal "Allegheny State Park" signs nailed to trees about every 50 yds. We've always wondered what if.... but luckily never had to find out. I have seen NY hunters venture onto our side a few times thru the years, but they are usually from big city and "lost", and scoot back when told they were in Pa. I'm gonna research the game laws & see if I can find the answer. I'll also check with guys in ASP police for their side of it. I'll get back with some kind of answer asap.

carl milks
10-10-2007, 03:00 PM
Well, I did the research today and got the skinny on this question. A check with Pa Game Comm got an answer of "Check with NY DEC, as they would be the ones to enforce this". A check of our (Pa's) Game Law, Title 34, Section 2305a REMOVAL OF KILLED/WOUNDED GAME OR WILDLFE: (a) General Rule- It is unlawful for any person who kills or wounds any game animal while engaged in lawful activity to refuse or neglect to make a reasonable effort to retrieve, retain or dispose of such game.
I then checked with ASP Park Police. Their opinion on this is: "Most Officers would exercise a common courtesy (with evidence of a wounded deer) to allow the hunter to follow it within reason and dispatch it if necessary & retrieve it, with the stickler problem of no centerfire rifles allowed in park". I then checked with NY DEC in Buffalo. The Official legal opinion is: "It is UNLAWFUL to pursue the wounded animal into NYS without having a valid NY licence". But was then interjected with "hunters have a moral and ethical obligation to do this, so we leave it up to the individual Officer to make a case by case decision on this". "I cannot tell you or another hunter to break this law, but with proper evidence of truthful actions, ie: a blood trail or tracks in snow coming from PA into NY, the DEC Officer would most likely accompany the hunter in and allow the retrieval". "All in all, this is at the descretion of the Officer". So there is the Official ruling on this. If you read between the lines on this, if you go in and do it on your own and can prove to the Officer if approached, you're good to go. But if you go and ask one for assistance, most likely they will let you in to do it. But you better have the trail(s)-evidence to back it. The best thing is what one Officer told me: " it's easier if you just don't hunt that close to the line".

carl milks
10-10-2007, 03:06 PM
One other thing on a relative note to this topic- while talking to PAGC on this, he reminded me of tracking game onto private property WITHIN the state. Although our law states we MUST make a reasonable effort to track a wounded animal, you CANNOT enter onto posted private property without permission from the owner. You then would face penalty under Pa Crimes Code, Criminal Trespass. More food for thought.

Bwanna Jim
10-10-2007, 03:52 PM
Thank you for looking into this and for your very excellent post. Nice for a change!!

Grizzly Gary
10-11-2007, 01:51 PM
Excellent information Carl! Thanks for doing that research & sharing it here.

To me it all comes down to doing the right thing. First i hope I never have to deal with this circumstance. If I did I would contact the DEC/PGC and do the right thing. I would take the chance that the officer would also do the right thing.

As to private property I WOULD NEVER enter private property without permission of that landowner. If he/she chose to confiscate my deer as was stated above happened so be it.

Bottom line for me is I would rather risk the fine than do something illegal.Just my 2 cents.