Grizzly Gary
11-10-2006, 12:52 PM
Well now that we will not be able to get Lake Erie Emerald Shiners to use on our tip-ups at the Zoo, what will you use for bait??

Grizzly Gary

11-10-2006, 09:00 PM
What's the deal no emeralds? I guess we'll have to use whatever Pages sells.

Bryan Hoffner
11-13-2006, 06:32 AM
Swanny, I ain't using whatever he sells. In fact i used his emeralds very rarely to begin with and I think it was the same with you. In fact if I catch you at my secret trapping spots I'll wack you. I only used them when everything was to froze up to catch my own. Yes I stayed withing the 50 in possession.
I have my own thoughts of how to remedy these times for this year but can and will not speak on these thoughts. I should support the local bait store here more but I generally am looking for more than a dozen worms or a dozen shiners and a hook or jig. Seems 9 times out of ten when I am looking to spend money I end up having to travel to spend the money in the end. Soi travel north to chautaqua lake bait stores right off the bat most of the time. Sorry but . . . . . .

Grizzly Gary
11-14-2006, 04:24 PM
Really looking bad for bait stores. Many can't get any minnows at all. Hope somebody figures this problem out quickly.

Grizzly Gary

11-14-2006, 08:14 PM
I've talked to the guys at the bait store I use most and they don't think there will be too much of a problem getting bait. As I don't use emerald shiners that often, I'll stick with the fatheads that last forever and for the most part, do as well as Niagaras. Heck, I went through more than 2 pounds of fatheads last week for perch. They had lots.

Ed Yohe
11-15-2006, 08:06 AM
Slavens is in the same boat he said they can't get any either. I will just stock up on the creek bait a little more, If ya get in a bind when you'r down, let me know, I'll hook ya up wit some bait. I don't use minnows for Pike anyway. Have a different bait that works better. Gutter and I started using it about 10-11 yrs ago. A lot of people questioned it when they first saw it, but made believers out of them quickly. Had 3 other guys with me one day and landed two pike that were bot 41 & 1/2 inches. By the middle of the day they were all switching to it, lol. Lots of other use it now and it works really well.

And no Gary, it's not a banjo minnow.

Ed Yohe

The EyeBall Buster
11-15-2006, 07:47 PM
I am new to the site but fish the Zoo alot.Isn't there a way to trap the emeralds out of the river?Surely you can catch some in a minnow trap.

Bryan Hoffner
11-16-2006, 06:28 AM
Eyeball buster, good luck in that adventure. Yes there are emeralds in the river. very spuratic on numbers from year to year. Also very spuratic on when and where you can find them in spots that you can actually trap/seine them. When you can find them you got to be on the top of yuor game and be there. Takes alot of time consistantly looking for them in the right places for when they do appear. Then to top it off you gotta watch the 50 in possesion law. I've had it where the schools disappear by the time I need more.

My bet is do what ed yohe is saying, Creek Bait most generally does fairly well to good enough to satisfy me

Grizzly Gary
11-17-2006, 08:22 AM
Creek bait is a good way to go. Finding the time to chase is another topic.

Welcome Eyeballbuster!

Grizzly Gary

Bryan Hoffner
11-17-2006, 11:12 AM
huh, gary you apparantly don't know about the 4 spots that are darn within walking distance of your house. figured you know about them. You drive by them evryday you start your truck. That's good leave them for me.

11-19-2006, 01:02 PM
Went to PAGES SPORTING GOODS yesterday morning, no minnows for sale!!!!!!!! Luckily the two guys I was going fishing with were on top of the game plan and had some trapped. If everyone has to trap bait this year I see nothing but trouble ahead. It's bad enough now when you go to get your trap only to find it missing all contents icluding bait and worse yet stolen.

Bryan Hoffner
11-20-2006, 07:46 PM
I hear you swanny. any time on the bait. I had fun soluting cheif conplanter and keeping Cole in 10 foot of water and you and i in 30 + smacking the eyes. Nice going home with a livewell jam packed full of eyes. (AGAIN) keep huntin guys and gals I'm having fun like we did on saturday.
Oh and Cole I did let cole in a few fish including a 13 inch perch. that's nice out of Kinzua

Mighty Mike
11-24-2006, 11:55 AM
Buch of pa. bait guys mad cause people are driving up to Jamestown and buying bait. Sure dont seem right they can do that. crazy that you can buy it 5 miles away but not in warren.


Bryan Hoffner
11-24-2006, 07:31 PM
Mighty Mike, checked a few days ago for the fun of it. No more to the travel for warren guys they're supposedly out and going to be out I was told. Huh, thank god for the will to travel and trap bait.

Loosen the local laws all you local law enforcement people. I see places going out of business not to far in the future. Guys like Dan paige can't afford this and still keep it going.

Ed Yohe
11-25-2006, 08:24 AM
Hey all,
Slavens told me that they have golden shiners, still can't get emeralds. Never had much luck with the goldens but at least he has something.
Ed Yohe

Grizzly Gary
11-25-2006, 01:42 PM
I have never had much luck with the Goldens either. Looks like we all are going to have to change our tactics come ice time.

Fish Wardens should be checking folks. If it is illegal then that's the way it should be. Very unfair for folks to ride to Jamestown and buy bait that is banned and then bring it to Pa. waters. If you are going to make a law then you should enforce the law!

I for one will be buying some extra tackle at Pages to help offset this loss of income. Man is suffering due to nothing he did.

Grizzly Gary

11-27-2006, 05:52 PM
Here's why no emerald's in the bait shops. This article was in the Nov. 26 Sunday Pittsburgh Post Gazette.

Fishing: Virus takes shine off Erie shiners
Sunday, November 26, 2006

By Deborah Weisberg

Although Emerald shiners are Lake Erie's blessing, the bountiful bait fish also could be its curse.

In an effort to help stem the spread of a deadly virus in the Great Lakes, the Pennsylvania Fish and Boat Commission plans to quarantine live Lake Erie fish, including shiners, within the Erie watershed beginning in January with restrictions on commercial seiners.

Agency biologist Chuck Murray also said the commission is moving its steelhead spawning program from Tionesta to its Fairview hatchery near Erie, and has halted the collection of northern pike brood stock from Presque Isle Bay.

"We want to confine Erie fish to Erie," Murray said. "Shiners are the most worrisome, because of their sheer numbers."

Murray said commercial seiners will be notified next month when they apply for 2007 permits that they cannot sell bait outside the Erie watershed, while the commission's board, at its January meeting, will consider restricting the movement of live fish by recreational anglers -- a prospect fraught with enforcement headaches.

The commission actions come on the heels of a federal emergency order affecting how eight Great Lakes states and Canada sell and trade 37 species of live fish, from rainbow trout to smallmouth bass, considered at risk for viral hemorrhagic septisemia (VHS), a disease that causes fish to bleed to death. It is blamed for recent die-offs of yellow perch, pike, walleyes, suckers and other species in Erie and throughout the Great Lakes.

"This new strain is unique, because the die-offs have been bigger and have affected 14 new species within the past year," said T. J. Myers of the U.S. Agriculture Department's Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service.

VHS, which poses no threat to humans even when they eat diseased fish, first surfaced in the Pacific Northwest, where saltwater and anadramous species, such as salmon and herring, were affected. While it is assumed that ocean freighters brought the disease into the Great Lakes in ballast water, Myers said it also is possible that VHS was introduced through the natural migration of an infected fish.

Although APHIS froze the interstate commerce of at-risk species in an emergency order Oct. 24, it loosened restrictions last week under pressure from groups such as the American Sportfishing Association. APHIS will allow fish farms and hatcheries to ship species certified as VHS-free during periodic routine health inspections.

But wild-caught fish pose a problem, since some species such as muskies, aren't harvested enough for representative sampling, while shiners, a type of minnow, are netted so often and in such big numbers, inspections wouldn't be "meaningful," Myers said. Still, they are subject to APHIS restrictions, and that hamstrings those in the baitfish business.

"I haven't been able to buy a shiner in weeks," said Dan Page of Page's Sporting Goods in Warren, near the Allegheny Reservoir. "This is the time of year when the demand for shiners is at its peak. I usually go through 10 gallons of shiners a week until ice fishing season comes on. Then it's 20 gallons. Before all is said and done, I'll lose thousands of dollars."

Gary Heubel of Poor Richard's Bait and Tackle in Erie is one of 10 commercial anglers with a permit to seine for shiners, mostly to sell in his shops, although he sometimes augments his stock with bait from a Conneaut, Ohio, wholesaler. "I can't now, even though the guy's 10 miles down the road and getting shiners from the same lake," he said. "Isn't that ridiculous?"

Heubel said anything short of outlawing baitfish sales isn't going to do much to keep VHS in check.

"As a businessman, I'm crazy to say that, but it's the only way to solve the problem, period," he said. "I have no control over what people do with the minnows they buy from me once they leave my shop. I get a ton of people from West Virginia and other places because they love using shiners on the crappies back home. Everyone wants shiners."

Murray agrees that enforcement of individual anglers would be extremely difficult, and said the commission will get more mileage out of a major public awareness campaign it plans to launch in coming months about VHS and other pathogens and exotic species.

VHS typically shows up in spring, when fish are in close contact and stressed from winter and the rigors of the spawn. According to APHIS, the virus is passed through fish feces, urine, mucous, ovarian fluid and other matter. It has been found on the surface of newly hatched eggs, which can be disinfected in hatcheries, but not in the wild.

The list
Federally regulated species of live fish that prompted restrictions on the Great Lakes.

Atlantic cod, black crappie, bluegill, bluntnose minnow, brown bullhead catfish, brown trout, burbot, channel catfish, Chinook salmon, Coho salmon, chum salmon, Emerald shiner, freshwater drum, gizzard shad, grayling, haddock, herring Japanese flounder, largemouth bass, muskellunge, Pacific cod, pike, pink salmon, pumpkinseed, rainbow trout, Redhorse sucker, rock bass, rockling, round goby, smallmouth bass, sprat, turbot, walleye, white bass, white perch, whitefish, yellow perch

Grizzly Gary
11-28-2006, 11:20 AM
There aint no doubt in my mind that people are going to continue to use Emeralds and bring them to other waters. Kinzua is the classic example of how impossible it will be to stop this. NY. anglers will be able to buy Emeralds and use them in NY waters. I guess they will have to have a stern talk with those minnies and tell them to stay on the Ny. side!

Grizzly Gary