The Decline of Pennsylvania Deer Hunting

I think we need to go back to a 2 day doe season and a 1 deer per year practice for a few years

I'm sorry to hear that you are having such a bad season Duke, I sure hope NY doesn't go in the same direction as PA.

I think it should be 1 week buck season with no doe hunting for 2 years then go back to the old season set up. 2 weeks of buck and 2 or 3 days of doe.

I do have to say even though NY's deer heard seems to be doing great I am wondering if we shouldn't cut Shotgun season down to one or two weeks and open muzzleloader to two weeks instead of one???

This really should be on the big game page. If I was a moderator I could move it, but Im not. Im sure with all of his moderators and administrators being soooo involved with the site Im sure they will be right on top of it.

I wouldnt mind seein that JJ.

I would like to see the population rise a bit without a decline in DMP tags and I think shortening the shotgun season would do it while still giving hunters a chance to fill the freezer.

I know its frustrating in the big woods but in the southwestern part of the state there are plenty of deer. Too many in some areas. The EHD problem a few years ago had the deer numbers down where I hunt in 2A, but the deer are back and then some. In unit 2D where I hunt there are plenty of deer running around there too. Not sure if you have the option but try to go where the deer are plentiful.


Here is the link to both public lands and private land co-ops around the state:
http://www.pgc.state.pa.us/pgc/cwp/v...&Q=173400&PM=1

If significant numbers of hunters move to areas where there is still a good population and kill more deer, those areas will soon be as bad as the areas they left. According to the PGC we are already harvesting all the deer that can be harvested on a sustainable basis in all but three WMUs and those areas have very little public land.

Don't look for it to get much better Duke. You are fortunate to have lived through a couple of deer population booms. Those were the days my friend, we thought they'd never end.

I don't see this getting better soon. Why? Because the younger hunters are perfectly satisfied with the way things are. They believe they are seeing bigger deer, specifically bucks, which is certainly not verified by any data you can collect. While the remaining bucks seen might impress these youths, they simply never experienced the days when there were gobs of those types of deer out there. If you never fed you kids ice cream, they would never crave ice cream. They don't know what they missed, so they don't miss it. A normal hunting season for them is seeing maybe a couple deer per day and they are thrilled to death with that. Once us old farts are out of the equation, the corporate interests will finish the job of flattening the forest and turning it back into the oil field PA once was.

Funny, I was thinking what a chore hunting has become also. I have lots of chores to do already.

I talked to a man yesterday that was content that he had not seen but 3 deer all season. He said he wasn't the type of guy that has to get one every year but would have liked to seen a few more. Still, he wasn't really upset with his experience. Typical of today's expectations. He won't be calling or sending letters to anyone of influence.

And it is not just the deer population that is down. The entire season starting with archery, I have seen very little of anything. Most amazingly, I never would have thought chipmunk populations would or could ever decline. I don't think I saw ten chipmunks all season. Very few days I even saw any small forest birds. With hearing enhancement equipment, I could not detect a chirp or pecking. All you hear is the wind blowing and the water flowing. I saw more Bobcat tracks than any other type of forest critter. Even the coyotes have abandoned much of their former territory.

But look at the bright side. When it gets down to where we have to hunt each other for food, no one will want us old grissly, tough eating codgers.

I agree with ICDUCKS. Put it back to the way it was and hunt predators for fun.

Sorry you had a bad year Duke. I do however think that we need to give the change in season in place for a few more years. I saw 18 deer yesterday, harvested a large doe that dressed at 148 lbs, and was 5.5 years old. Out of the 18 deer I saw 5 bucks, one shooter that I could not get a shot at, and 4 for sure button bucks. 50% of the deer I saw were male!! The other bucks I saw were, a spike, a wide 4 point, a half rack 3 pt, and a small 6 point. I am all for antler restrictions, the length of the doe season, and the concurrent buck doe season. I would like to see however that the doe season be held before the rut, so that when we shoot a doe it isn't already bred. The result of this would be when rut hit there would be more compition for the hot does, the larger more dominent bucks would breed, and more does would be bred at the same time of the year, and then they would fawn at the same time to reduce impact from predators. I do not believe that coyotes, bears or bobcats have a negative impact on the population. White-tailed deer live in areas with more dominent predators. I would also like to see that the doe season be longer, like 2 whole monthes, held pre-rut to allow hunters to be more selective and not to kill button bucks. Also, if you kill a button buck you have to use your buck tag, not a doe tag. I beleive we kill to many bucks, and not enough does to get the population back in check. I think that we should reduce the buck kill by having the buck be lottery like the doe tag is now. Have the doe tags be come with your general hunting licence, keep antler restrictions, and don't kill button bucks. Try to shoot adult mature does.
I hunt in southern Warren County near Tidioute. I have the priveledge to hunt on nearly 600 acres of private land. All members of the club follow these simple rules. No button bucks, if you can;t tell don't shoot, try to kill the oldest doe you can, only shoot a buck that meets are or exceeds antler restrictions, and has atleast a 14" spread. We have $50 fines for shooting button bucks, and small racked bucks. We have had the lease for 4 years, and the results are great. We killed a total of 13 deer on the property. 5 bucks, and 8 does. All of the bucks where 2.5 years of age or older, the oldest was 6.5. Average points was 8.75, weight was 150 lbs dressed. Green score average was 122. 6 out the 8 does where adults, and the oldest was was 5.5. Average lbs on does was 136. Let the deer get some age on them and body weights, and antlers will improve.
I have the unique oppurtunity to implement some of my thoughts on deer management on this property. I had a great year, I did not kill a buck, but I saw deer, and the deer I saw where of good quality. I saw a total of 11 bucks, 8 of which where 1.5 years old, so next year is looking good. I saw a total of 43 deer throughout the season. I remember 20 years ago I would see 30 deer on the first day of buck season, and not a buck.
I do believe that the deer population has been reduced, to far in some areas. But the quality of the deer has become better. I do not want to upset anybody with this comment. These are my personal views, and opinions. I read and take into account everyones views, and opinions. Some I agree with and others I do not. My opinions are based on personal expierence, research, and implementation of our own QDM. I feel bad when guys hunt hard, and don't get results for there hard work. Hopefully someday the deer herd in PA can be managed so that everyone can be happy

When Alt was selling the plan he blamed the hunters for not letting the PGC to harvest enough does. But in 93,94,and 95 we harvested more does than in the last three years. But now due to over harvesting the herd , the PGC has created a whole new generation of hunters who are reluctant to shoot doe. So, if and when the herd rebounds ,the PGC will once again blame the hunters, just like they have done over and over again.

I would like to see however that the doe season be held before the rut, so that when we shoot a doe it isn't already bred. The result of this would be when rut hit there would be more compition for the hot does, the larger more dominent bucks would breed, and more does would be bred at the same time of the year, and then they would fawn at the same time to reduce impact from predators

Would you be agreeable to having two or 3 weeks of antlerless the first 3 weeks of Oct.?

Have you compared breeding rates, productivity and the breeding window prior to ARs and HR to the same data after ARs and HR?

The early October doe only season YOU BET, no I have not compared reproduction rates prior to or since, All I do know is the rut is the end of November, and we shoot pregnant does the first 2 weeks of December. Seems like a huge waste of the resource, there is no way to tell if the doe has been bred, in early October there is a greater chance she has not. Again these our my personal views on deer mgt. I have not scientifcally proven these views, they are simply things that I have thought about that may work

You are certainly entitled to your ideas and opinions. But , if you expect them to be taken seriously they should be based on the facts.

Personally I don't see how shooting does that have been bred is a waste of the resource,since they are not going to produce fawns anyway. Also, reducing the herd and implementing ARs had no positive effect on the breeding rate, productivity or the breeding window. And, even if most of the does were harvested before the peak of the rut, you would still have some doe bred in Oct. and the female fawns would still be bred in Dec. and Jan.

Originally Posted by beenthere

You are certainly entitled to your ideas and opinions. But , if you expect them to be taken seriously they should be based on the facts.

Like many of us, you should not be taken seriously. Get use to it. Join the many on here that are insulted or belittled per the BT approach.

Yes! You come before the Great Beenthere without facts?????


How dare you!!!!!

You are sentenced to a life of AR's and herd decimation!!!

Thank You once again Beenthere for dragging another post down to your level. I have read many, many posts where you have to belittle someone to make yourself feel good. God forbid we have a conversation without the rainmaker. I cant believe you are still allowed on here.

Its just a matter of time Craven....just a matter of time.