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Thread: Open carry/police encounter

  1. #41
    Senior Member Grizzly Bear hunterdeneugene will become famous soon enough hunterdeneugene's Avatar
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    And:

    Miscellaneous
    It is an offense while committing or attempting to commit a crime of violence to possess or use restricted ammunition, defined as "any cartridge containing a bullet coated with a plastic substance with other than a lead or lead alloy core or a jacketed bullet with other than a lead or lead alloy core or a cartridge of which the bullet itself is wholly composed of a metal or metal alloy other than lead."


    Restricted ammunition does not include shotgun shells or solid plastic bullets.


    It is a felony for any person or corporation to manufacture, sell, offer to sell, display for sale or use in this state any ammunition cartridge, metallic or otherwise, containing a bullet with a hollow-nose cavity which is filled with an explosive material and designed to detonate upon impact.


    It is unlawful to possess a firearm on the premises of a public place where alcoholic beverages are served.

    This prohibition does not apply to a person’s own (or controlled) premises or to their employees or agents responsible for protecting persons or property.


    It is unlawful to carry a firearm into a judicial proceeding.


    It is unlawful to possess or carry any firearm, with the intent to go armed, onto any school or college facility or grounds (to include a bus), unless used for instructional or sanctioned ceremonial purposes.

    This prohibition does not apply to military, law enforcement, penal personnel, pupils who are members of Reserve Officers Training Corps, pupils enrolled in a course of instruction or members of a club or team required to carry guns, or campus police officers while in the performance of their official duties.


    It is an affirmative defense if carrying on school or college facilities was incident to lawful and authorized hunting, was of an unloaded hunting weapon while traveling to the hunting facilities, was while conducting or attending an approved gun show, or while entering the property for the sole purpose of delivering or picking up passengers.


    The same prohibitions and exceptions generally apply to carrying and possession in public parks, playgrounds, civic centers and other public recreational buildings and grounds.


    It is unlawful for any person over the age of eighteen, including parent or guardian, to know that a minor or student is in illegal possession of a firearm in or upon the premises of a public or private school, school’s athletic stadium, or other facility or building where school sponsored athletic events are conducted, or public park, playground or civic center, and such person, parent or guardian fails to prevent such possession or fails to report it to the appropriate school or law enforcement officials.


    It is unlawful to carry a weapon into a meeting where the owner has posted prominent signs at all entrances banning weapon possession.


    It is a misdemeanor for any person hunting big game with a bow and arrow to be in possession of any firearms or be accompanied in hunting by any person possessing firearms during the archery-only deer season.


    Local regulations of firearms and ammunition are preempted by state regulation for all local ordinances not lawfully enacted prior to April 8, 1986.


    The lawful design, marketing, manufacture and sale of firearms do not constitute a nuisance and many such lawsuits against gun manufacturers, trade associations and dealers are reserved only to the state.
    Note: A handgun is unloaded if:

    There is not a cartridge in the chamber of the handgun.

    There is not a cartridge in the cylinder of the handgun if the handgun is a revolver, or the handgun and the ammunition for such handgun, are not carried on the minor, or are not in such close proximity that the minor could readily gain access to the handgun and ammunition and load the handgun. Otherwise, a firearm is unloaded if there is no ammunition in the chamber, clip or magazine, and no clip or magazine is in the immediate vicinity of the firearm.

  2. #42
    Senior Member Grizzly Bear hunterdeneugene will become famous soon enough hunterdeneugene's Avatar
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    So if you are able to determine all that is met as required by a you tube video, then you need to apply with the FBI.....but then again you probably think Avatar is real....

    Sorry Forager, just getting sick of the runaround.....

  3. #43
    Senior Member Grizzly Bear hunterdeneugene will become famous soon enough hunterdeneugene's Avatar
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    and I know what the definition of an antique firearm is, but I am going to determine if it meets the requirements somewhere alot safer than in the street, and I can also tell you that the subject will also not have in his possession that wepoon in the mean time. If he was a convicted felon yada yada yada, even the antiqu firearm defense is out the window....and there is case law to support it. So once again, can you make that determination from a Youtube video. I will go as far as to say that I cannot make it if put in the officers position....my number one priority would be that would make it home that night....

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    Senior Member Grizzly Bear hunterdeneugene will become famous soon enough hunterdeneugene's Avatar
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    here's what Michigan says about it....

    I have a replica of an antique pistol. Is a License to Purchase or Pistol Sales Record required in Michigan? Is it necessary that I obtain a Michigan Concealed Pistols License?

    MCL 28.422 No, antique pistols made before 1898 and replicas of antiques that use black powder, matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap or similar type of ignition system do not require a License to Purchase. The pistol is still subject to all concealed pistol licensing laws.

  5. #45
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    denny, grab a coffee and have a smoke on that one
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  6. #46
    Senior Member On the Leader Board John Lorenzo is on a distinguished road
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    I watched the videos. That kid has problems. One guess is that he could have been the little geek that got his ass kicked the entire time he was in school and now he feels he's gotta take it out on someone by proving he's smarter and "better" than a law enforcement officer. Kinda like some others we know right? Well I for one am glad they stopped him. We as a society should be grateful we have those officers out there doing what they do putting their lives on the line for us. They are no different from a serviceman in my eyes. Everyday they have to go out and put themselves in harms way to protect those of us that can't protect ourselves. And just where would those people in that town be if that man had been a killer but those officers thought "oh it's just a blackpowder handgun no need to stop him whatsoever". I think there are better ways this kid could approach this if he feels his need to educate someone. How do you think those officers felt pulling over and stopping that guy to begin with. I'm sure most officers get a sick feeling in their stomach approaching someone they know has a gun, not knowing their intentions. Clair I haven't read a lot of your posts but the few I have got me wondering about you.
    bass or walleye? no question BASS!!!!!!!!!!!!

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  8. #47
    Banned User On the Leader Board Forager will become famous soon enough Forager will become famous soon enough Forager's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Lorenzo View Post
    I watched the videos. That kid has problems. One guess is that he could have been the little geek that got his ass kicked the entire time he was in school and now he feels he's gotta take it out on someone by proving he's smarter and "better" than a law enforcement officer. Kinda like some others we know right? Well I for one am glad they stopped him. We as a society should be grateful we have those officers out there doing what they do putting their lives on the line for us. They are no different from a serviceman in my eyes. Everyday they have to go out and put themselves in harms way to protect those of us that can't protect ourselves. And just where would those people in that town be if that man had been a killer but those officers thought "oh it's just a blackpowder handgun no need to stop him whatsoever". I think there are better ways this kid could approach this if he feels his need to educate someone. How do you think those officers felt pulling over and stopping that guy to begin with. I'm sure most officers get a sick feeling in their stomach approaching someone they know has a gun, not knowing their intentions. Clair I haven't read a lot of your posts but the few I have got me wondering about you.
    I think you might have pegged things a bit more squarely than will be comfortable around here.

  9. #48
    Junior Member Baitfish EvilTwin is on a distinguished road EvilTwin's Avatar
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    I have approached literally hundreds of armed men in my time on the job. The legit carriers generally tend to be a whole lot more relaxed and open about it. The really illegal, up to no good carriers otoh, tend to either run or fight.
    Nuthin' a 545 grainer from my buffler gun won't cure

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  11. #49
    Banned User On the Leader Board Forager will become famous soon enough Forager will become famous soon enough Forager's Avatar
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    Might be a reason for that.

    ET;

    Care to elaborate on actual NYS carry laws, now that you're back here for a bit?

  12. #50
    Banned User Grizzly Bear William Wallace will become famous soon enough William Wallace will become famous soon enough
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    Another opportunity to thank you ET for your ENTIRE career serving the US citizen.

    And, real world experience trumps hypothesized opinion EVERY time......

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  14. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by William Wallace View Post
    Another opportunity to thank you ET for your ENTIRE career serving the US citizen.

    And, real world experience trumps hypothesized opinion EVERY time......
    Amen. Honored to know him as a friend, and be part of his Clan (in the truest sense of the word).

  15. #52
    Junior Member Baitfish EvilTwin is on a distinguished road EvilTwin's Avatar
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    fairly simple. If you have a permit with a "C" prefacing the serial, then you can carry openly or concealed. Most places is is a wise move to carry concealed. people tend to jump through their ass seeing a gun. Can't carry in NYC unless permit endorsed by NYPD, no carry in Court houses,schools except for forestry lands owned and operated by SUNY. Keep in mind that I had to very pointedly "educate" some of my brother officers about what was legit or not. Sect 265 of the NYS Penal Law is the operative. Sec 400 of the NYS Penal Law covers the licensing specs. Article 35 of same law outlines use of force/defense of Justification.
    Last edited by EvilTwin; 03-05-2010 at 09:23 PM. Reason: Whoops
    Nuthin' a 545 grainer from my buffler gun won't cure

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    So, succinctly, NYS is about as open to carry to citizens as, say, PA, given that Philly and NYC are both verbotten?

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    Pretty much. I wouldn't recommend carrying openly in a place like say Albany. You WILL be stopped and likely at gunpoint. Nasty place Albany. I know a lot of the guys from the old days and they tell me the younger guys are a lot more paranoid. Knowing Arbor Hill and Pine Hills, it's kinda hard to blame them.
    Nuthin' a 545 grainer from my buffler gun won't cure

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    Quote Originally Posted by EvilTwin View Post
    Pretty much. I wouldn't recommend carrying openly in a place like say Albany. You WILL be stopped and likely at gunpoint. Nasty place Albany. I know a lot of the guys from the old days and they tell me the younger guys are a lot more paranoid. Knowing Arbor Hill and Pine Hills, it's kinda hard to blame them.
    So, Albany would be a lot like Harrisburg, or Pittsburgh.

    Basically, the states are the same.

    Good to know.

  19. #56
    Junior Member Baitfish kwikrnu is an unknown quantity at this point
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    Quote Originally Posted by hunterdeneugene View Post
    Local regulations of firearms and ammunition are preempted by state regulation for all local ordinances not lawfully enacted prior to April 8, 1986.
    This is the Tennessee law which applies, it is TCA 39-27-1314(a). Local ordinances in effect before that date are "exceptions" to any State preemption. Belle Meade ordinance does not require any permit to carry, but the only pistol legally allowed is the army navy pistol and it must be carried openly in the hand. There is no option to use a holster.

    The Belle Meade City ordinance is 11-602. It is based upon 1870's State law which prohibited all handguns except army or navy pistols carried openly in the hand. The State law was repealed in 1989, but Belle Meade and many other cities have kept theirs on the books.

    11-602. Weapons and firearms generally. It shall be unlawful for any
    person to carry in any manner whatever, with the intent to go armed, any razor,
    dirk, knife, blackjack, brass knucks, pistol, revolver, or any other dangerous
    weapon or instrument except the army or navy pistol which shall be carried
    openly in the hand.




    Now, the Belle Meade board of commisioners has passed upon 1st reading an ammended firearms ordinance 2010-2. Second reading is scheduled for March 17, 2010. It removes the words, "except the army or navy pistol which shall be carried openly in the hand" from ordinance 11-602. This change is substantial and I am of the opinion that State Law will now preempt the local law. Plus, the TN State Constitution only allows the regulation of firearms not a prohibition. The TN Supreme Court decided that in Andrews v State and Glass**** v Chattanooga.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kwikrnu View Post
    This is the Tennessee law which applies, it is TCA 39-27-1314(a). Local ordinances in effect before that date are "exceptions" to any State preemption. Belle Meade ordinance does not require any permit to carry, but the only pistol legally allowed is the army navy pistol and it must be carried openly in the hand. There is no option to use a holster.

    The Belle Meade City ordinance is 11-602. It is based upon 1870's State law which prohibited all handguns except army or navy pistols carried openly in the hand. The State law was repealed in 1989, but Belle Meade and many other cities have kept theirs on the books.

    11-602. Weapons and firearms generally. It shall be unlawful for any
    person to carry in any manner whatever, with the intent to go armed, any razor,
    dirk, knife, blackjack, brass knucks, pistol, revolver, or any other dangerous
    weapon or instrument except the army or navy pistol which shall be carried
    openly in the hand.




    Now, the Belle Meade board of commisioners has passed upon 1st reading an ammended firearms ordinance 2010-2. Second reading is scheduled for March 17, 2010. It removes the words, "except the army or navy pistol which shall be carried openly in the hand" from ordinance 11-602. This change is substantial and I am of the opinion that State Law will now preempt the local law. Plus, the TN State Constitution only allows the regulation of firearms not a prohibition. The TN Supreme Court decided that in Andrews v State and Glass**** v Chattanooga.
    Why, look at that...

    I'll refrain from any further comments, other than stating that I personally find those local ordinances to be ridiculous.

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    Junior Member Baitfish kwikrnu is an unknown quantity at this point
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forager View Post
    Why, look at that...

    I'll refrain from any further comments, other than stating that I personally find those local ordinances to be ridiculous.
    The historically racist City of Belle Meade law is ridiculous, but we are talking about Al Gore's home town and where the Belle Meade Country club is located. In post war between the states and reconstruction the Tennessee Legislature was taken over by racists. In order to prevent blacks from carrying handguns they restricted carry to large, heavy, pistols which were expensive. To make it easy to identify those who carry the handgun had to be carried openly in the hand. As small pocket pistols became more common Tennessee took additional steps which included banning the sale of all pistols except the army or navy pistols.

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    That is a pretty cool law. As long as you have your gun in your hand, ready to do business you are OK. Seems like a lot of thought went into that.
    zenrider
    When I hold you in my arms and I feel my finger on your trigger, I know, nobody could do me no harm because, Happiness is a Warm Gun mama.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kwikrnu View Post
    The historically racist City of Belle Meade law is ridiculous, but we are talking about Al Gore's home town and where the Belle Meade Country club is located. In post war between the states and reconstruction the Tennessee Legislature was taken over by racists. In order to prevent blacks from carrying handguns they restricted carry to large, heavy, pistols which were expensive. To make it easy to identify those who carry the handgun had to be carried openly in the hand. As small pocket pistols became more common Tennessee took additional steps which included banning the sale of all pistols except the army or navy pistols.
    No disagreement that the ordinance is completely ludicrous. The point, however, goes back to the OP, and that the ordinances/laws/etc., differ so greatly from place to place that the stop in the youtube video MAY have been legitimate, depending upon the location, etc.

    Fill in the further blanks re: the rest of this thread from there.

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